Lincoln v. Confucius: Shedding Light on Cross-Cultural Ethics?

So I have been working on a book chapter stemming from the Beijing conference on Rethinking Negotiation last May concerning differences in negotiation behavior that we observed between Chinese law students and U.S. law students.  I’m not ready to post on the chapter yet (!), but I did recently come across two different quotes and wonder if there might be some insight found from them.  Abraham Lincoln apparently said, “You can’t get clear water from a muddy stream” in what we would consider a classic American take on the importance of truth-telling and honestly.  And, at a talk on Chinese culture that I attended earlier this week from Jianying Zha, I heard the proverb (that some attribute to Confucius) as, “You can’t get fish in clear water” or, in another version of the quote, “if the water is too clear, it will not contain fish” arguing for the idea that wisdom comes from the muddy reality of life.  As she alluded to in her talk, when the whole country operates in various modes of muddy, truth is not the primary value.  (See also a blog post from Han Han about a government official’s death/murder, who is apparently the most well-known blogger in China.)  What do you think?  Might these be two quite different approaches to clarity?

3 thoughts on “Lincoln v. Confucius: Shedding Light on Cross-Cultural Ethics?”

  1. I think the proverb “water that is too clear has no fish” is part of a longer passage, but due to the passage of time and common usage, it has been shortened and is often only accompanied by an additional verse, such as “a man too cautious gains no wisdom” or something to that effect. The accompanying verse may vary depending on the context in which one uses the proverb. In my opinion, this proverb is not necessarily inapposite to Lincoln’s quote about the value of truth and honesty.

    The general idea of the proverb seems to be that one who is wise necessarily retains a measure of “muddiness.” Life is necessarily rife with flaws and imperfections; one cannot gain wisdom by simply living within his or her own sense of purity and righteousness, nor is it possible to attain a life in a perpetual state of purity. Truth and the virtue of honesty are but parts of the measure of that purity. Truthfulness and honesty are important, but one who places truthfulness above all else will have difficulty accepting others who have imperfections and who are not absolutely truthful. It is only with the knowledge, understanding, and acceptance of that “muddiness” will we then realize that demanding truthfulness and uncovering the absolute truth is important, but not the main goal.

    Lincoln’s quote focuses on the importance of being truthful and honest, whereas the Chinese proverb can be taken as cautioning against placing too much emphasis on truthfulness or any one particular virtue. Whenever we are talking about societal relations, there will necessarily be elements that are more important, such as establishing trust between the parties. Accompanying those elements will be other “modes of muddy.” There is more wisdom in understanding and accepting the existence of the muddy than in demanding the utmost from others.

  2. This is quite interesting Peter. What do you think this means about trust? I will definitely check into the saying with additional Chinese colleagues…

  3. Dear Andrea:

    A Chinese counterparty (and friend) replied with that saying in the course of a negotiation when I was working with the CPR Institute. At the time I did not understand what he was trying to say, but later I understood that the proverb — in his case, “One does not catch fish in a clear stream” — meant that if you wait until all is known, and all uncertainties are dispelled, you will never achieve your goal. You must put your hook in the water even though it is unclear, if you are going to fish.

    In any event I think it addresses an entirely distinct thought from Lincoln’s. It doesn’t speak to honesty, but rather to risk and trust.

    — Peter

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